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Report 841
Report #841 Skillset: Druidry Skill: Special Org: Elders Status: Completed Apr 2012 Furies' Decision: Implemented solutions 1-3 and a slight balance loss on sapping. Problem: The Special Report changes so far do not synergise well with stacking thornlashes or sticking sap. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Change allergy balance malus to increased writhe time (each allergy level adds +0.1 seconds to writhe time). 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Allergy levels should affect your ability to climb up and down (your limbs feel achy and sore). At level 8+ (severe), climb up/down has a 50% chance to fail and take some balance (you try to climb but then give up because it's too sore). At level 12+ (incapacitating), the chance to fail climb up/down increases to 80%. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Increase the delay on sapped commands relative to how bad the target's allergy is (sore limbs pushing through sap requires more effort). Make the delay 1.00 seconds (normal aeon delay) at max allergy, which equates to approx +0.03 seconds delay per allergy level. At this rate I'd expect someone to have a sap delay of about 0.75-0.80 (someone staying at max allergy is probably unlikely). Player Comments: ---on 4/25 @ 23:30 writes: All of these solutions are fine with me. Please implement them all into allergy mechanic. 1 helps out with thornlashes, 2 helps with getting sap on a victim, and 3 helps with perpetuating the saplock. So please do all of them. ---on 4/25 @ 23:34 writes: Furthermore, I suggest the following to further help with Druids: 1. Have sap put the victim offbalance for an initial amount of time (3s?, maybe), then have that scale up depending on the victim's allergy level at the time. At the worst, perhaps 8+s offbalance. 2. Change thornlashes to function off allergy levels somewhat. Have it add 1 extra thornlash if the victim is at a severe allergic reaction and have it add 2 extra thornlashes if done at the level above that. These 2 ideas will help accomplish these goals: helping perpetuate the saplock (the initial offbalance, since the first 10s is critical to the druid) and helping build thornlashes quickly (extra lashes = less time spent lashing and wasting balance) ---on 4/26 @ 05:38 writes: I fully support all of these solutions in tandem, and agree with Shuyin's comment that they should all be implemented into the allergy mechanic. ---on 4/26 @ 06:39 writes: After what I've heard regarding the newly implemented allergy levels, I agree that the above solutions and comments should be considered to actually round out the desire for a druid to build allergy levels. I'm not sure about making lash 100% add an extra lash at severe allergies and 100% to add two extra lashes at incapacitating, however, but I can see a percent chance to do so instead. ---on 4/26 @ 14:44 writes: Agreed with the above, including Viynain's concerns with high levels of lashing. I still wish we could change what sap actually does, but that's life, I suppose! ---on 4/26 @ 18:06 writes: All the solutions sound reasonable. ---on 4/26 @ 19:34 writes: After a conversation with Sidd and confirmation with Iosai, the following moves generate the corresponding allergy points (out of 15, out = non-trees, in = in- trees): seedburst - 1 out, 2/3 in, pollen/swarn - 1 out, 1 + 50% chance of another 1 in. With that said, at the slowest, it will take 2.5 minutes to build somone up to max allergies, assuming they do not run, however it will take somewhere around 30s at the very fastest to build up max allergies. If we are going to go with most, if not all, of these changes, I would strongly recommended that allergies be given a manual cure -in addition to- the running mechanic. I suggest liniment, given the precedent set by burns. If you want something cute and RP appropriate, have it cured by the sneeze emote and have sneezing take balance when used to cure allergies and take perhaps 2-3 allergies off every time. If we can find a healthy balance where spamming the cure will still eventually result in max allergies, but after 2 minutes or so, then that would be great. ---on 4/26 @ 19:46 writes: Incidentally, 30s is also how long it takes if all the druid does is spam seeds and meld ticks (4 seeds, 3 ticks = max). So yeah, it is probably going a bit too fast right now. I'd prefer adding a manual cure over slowing down/reducing the effects/seedcloud, but if we're going the latter route, here are my suggestions: seedcloud - 1 out, 1 in + 50% chance of another, pollen/swarm - .5 out, 1 in ---on 4/26 @ 20:42 writes: Are these changes all additional to the current balance malus (I believe 0.09 per each of the 15 allergy levels), or is that going to be removed in favour of these changes? I'm slightly wary that a general increased balance + increased writhe times will make it difficult for warrior/monk classes to get anywhere vs a druid, especially since warriors can't really afford to run away to cure allergies. If both are still going to be included, I do think there should be something like Shuyin's suggested means of curing allergy levels making this something like deathmark curing. Anyway, I'd say I'm tentatively supporting all three solutions. ---on 4/26 @ 21:12 writes: It should replace the current balance malus, for the reasons you mentioned. If across the board writhe extension is a problem, I suggest making it only slow down writhing from vines and lashes. I think one or two of Shuyin's numbers/chances are off (from what I was told when testing things), but I'd far rather slow down the progression then add a salve cure. Unlike deathmark, where you must give up quite a few long balances to get rid of the affliction, you won't be losing out on anything applying a salve against a druid. I was pretty sure that admins were deadset against any non-time-cured afflictions, also. ---on 4/26 @ 21:52 writes: I'd shift Seedcloud to doing 1 with a 50% chance for 2 in the trees. Then, make pollen and swarm only do 1 ever. That means that in Shuyin's example, you'd only be seeing an average of 10 levels after 30 seconds of focusing on a single target who is in the trees, not hindering the druid. This avoids messy .5 allergy levels, and allows the druid to raise this counter on their single focused target at a comfortable rate. 2 minutes buildup on a single target for what isn't an instakill is too slow. ~45 seconds is more acceptable, imo. Many players are quite adept at staying down out of the trees, and if the druid does not chase them, the allergen levels will decay at 1 per 7.5 seconds! Assuming that the target will stay in the trees for 30 seconds straight and not do anything to hinder the druid is stretching the imagination a little. Could make pollen just not hit for anything out of the trees if need be, or remove swarm's pollen capability entirely. I haven't done the math on what that would mean, but I'd lobby to make pollen go after treelife in that case... ---on 4/26 @ 23:25 writes: I agree with Shuyin's initial comment ideas and the follow-up comment ideas. It makes theoretical sense as being workable. ---on 4/27 @ 08:19 writes: Woah now, before we talk about making it cure quicker, keep in mind allergy levels completely go poof if you get out of the forest for 10 seconds - very unlike deathmark or burns. And liniment to cure may be a bit too easy - it's what, 1s balance? Unless it's not 1 apply per level (much like how burns is not one apply per level), which could potentially work out great if the apply-to- cure replaced the passive curing of the forest/druid separation.